2010+ BMW 328i & 335i Sedans (E90) vs. 2011+ BMW 128i & 135i Coupes (E87)

"The Millennial Falcon" (e395) 11/17/2013 at 10:08 • Filed to: None

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S0 Oppo,

After spending far more time than I would like to admit trolling Autotrader's CPO gallery for recent late-model BMW's, They're starting enter my mind as a viable choice for a long-term car (this is the time to correct me if that's wrong). I've decided that if I were to choose a 35i variant, it has to be with the n55. As much as I love the idea of 400hp with a chip on stock internals, etc, Reliability wins out for me. (well, as far as reliability goes in the context of german makes.) Additionally, I've limited it to 2010/11+ post LCI cars for the same reasons.

What I've been wondering for the most part is:

1. Is the power of the 35i variants worth the (seemingly) increased number of mechanical failures in comparison to the 28i?

2. Coming from both Honda ownership (127 hp on an amazing day) & living in a house with a E39 M5, is the 240hp (underrated?) 28i enough power?

3. If the car is CPO & has had a replaced HPFP, do I still need to worry?

4. is the E90's "directness", "purity" and "real BMW" status worth the potential headaches that come with buying a pre-owned car vs. a leased F30 328i?

5. I've heard the e87 cars to be better than the e90 stuff by virtue of lighter weight, better handling, and spiritual successor to 2002/e30-ness. They often come up a little cheaper, but is the hit on size and wheelbase noticeable on the highway? Are they as unreliable?

I come from a BMW household, there have been E34 540 wagons, E39 540i's and M5's, M Roadsters, the whole nine yards. If any of these aforementioned cars won't entirely bankrupt me and are worth the expenditure, I'm down for it. But if they're more trouble than they're worth, even with the CPO warranty, I would want to know before I have a financial time bomb in my driveway.

No Prius Needed > The Millennial Falcon 11/17/2013 at 10:15

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The title is a bit confusing for non BMWphiles.

Nibby > The Millennial Falcon 11/17/2013 at 10:20

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I don't care at all for the 1 series. That aside, I know people who have had had the x35 twin turbo engine and they've had some vibration issues with all of them.

The x28i isn't bad and 240hp is still a decent amount, especially for a physically small car like the 3 series. One of our very own posted about his 2008 335i, worth a read. http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/expensive-main…

Tom McParland > The Millennial Falcon 11/17/2013 at 10:54

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I was once considering a E90 335 as my next ride...and the reliability issues are definitely a factor for me. I will also tell you having driven the new F30 328, it is a very nice car, not much of a noticeable difference in acceleration between the N20 and the N55. The N55 has better top-end but the turbo 4 is just fine on a daily commute. I also like the fact that the F30 is a little bigger (the E90 is a bit tight) so if my family grows and I need a car to shuttle the kiddies around, the new body style is a bit better for me. Like you I spend too much time on Autotrader and configurating BMWs. The nice thing about leasing is, you could spec a BMW exactly how you want and lease that exact car (complete with covered maintenance . Then if you really like the car as a long term ride, buy out the lease.

The Millennial Falcon > No Prius Needed 11/17/2013 at 11:07

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Noted, I'll add some more familiar terminology for clarity's sake.

The Millennial Falcon > Nibby 11/17/2013 at 11:08

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Yeah, that's exactly the type of experience that's telling me the 35i's are not worth the effort. Granted that's a 2008 with the N54, but nevertheless it stands.

The Millennial Falcon > Tom McParland 11/17/2013 at 11:17

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Yeah, C&D had the '12 328i manual at 5.6 to 60. That's still pretty quick.( source ) I'm holding out for F30 x28s & maybe x35s fresh off leases next summer when it's time to buy as well. Not to suggest consumer reports to be the end-all be-all of automotive statistics, but their reliability findings are much better for the F30s than even the later years of E90s. Siiiigh.

Tom McParland > The Millennial Falcon 11/17/2013 at 11:27

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Yeah CR's long term data is very helpful for this type of thing.

twinturbobmw > The Millennial Falcon 11/17/2013 at 11:27

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I think I would stay away from the N55 if you plan on driving it for a while. The N20 F30 I think is the way to go. Plus later on, if you do plan on modifying it, it will be easy to get almost N55 power because it's a turbo.

Textured Soy Protein > The Millennial Falcon 11/18/2013 at 12:03

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Are you getting stick or automatic? I think the 7-speed DCT is a big upgrade over the 6-speed Steptronic.

I decided I wanted the DCT and the most go-fast stuff without modifying so leased a 135is. But it's not a very big car so if you're looking for something practical it may be best to go with something bigger.

Leasing is cool if you're not planning to keep it more than 3 years anyway, and the F30 328i has the turbo and 8-speed ZF which is a sweet combo. With the cheap BMW lease rates, it's certainly worth checking out that, or a new 1-er lease.

The Millennial Falcon > Textured Soy Protein 11/18/2013 at 16:05

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Most likely the DCT in reality. Size doesn't bother me quite honestly, I don't have any familial obligations or anything to uphold so that helps.

Textured Soy Protein > The Millennial Falcon 11/18/2013 at 16:51

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Well there's a good amount of 135is'es out there on dealer lots still. Assuming you're open to leasing they could very well be in your price range. It has the BMW Performance Power Kit, which is a more aggressive ECU tune, and extra oil cooler, among other things. Also has the BMW Performance exhaust which is mostly fun but can drone a little on the highway.

These lease rates are for 10k miles a year and based on certain pre-configured models with specific MSRPs but should at least give you an idea of the ballpark for each model.

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte…

The Millennial Falcon > Textured Soy Protein 11/18/2013 at 18:25

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That's what I've seen around me. There's also lots of sweet CPO's available near me with sub 30k miles well in my price range. The 1 appears to have the best value/$$$ ratio from what I've seen so far.

Manuél Ferrari > Tom McParland 11/21/2013 at 00:54

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That's very true about leasing. You know what the residual buy out amount will be. So you get to date the car before you marry it. If the car gives you grief or you get in an accident that doesn't total it but you're worried about whether the car will be OK in the long run after major repairs you can turn it in.

Another cool thing - while it's not advertised you can lease a 1-2 year old car. My 997 was a dealer demo unit and was a year old and had 12,400 miles on it when I leased it. Nobody could believe that it wasn't a brand new car. I negotiated the monthly payment to $950 including sales tax and 12,000 miles a year. I could not have got that deal with a brand new car.

Manuél Ferrari > The Millennial Falcon 11/21/2013 at 01:06

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I haven't owned a 1 Series so I can only give you my feedback on the 3 Series. This is what I would do if I was you:

Option 1: Value and LTO Costs
Buy a used or CPO E90 328i 6MT. No turbo or AT to need service or replacement down the road. Enough power. And the 4 door cars are super common so you can get good deals on them. Get one with the sport package.

Option 2: Getting an awesome car for a great price, forget LTO Costs concerns
Buy a 335is with the DCT. You get a near-M3 for a cheaper price and with better gas mileage. I have the DCT in my E90 M3 and I freaking love it. It gives the car two personalities. You can be stuck in awful traffic in auto mode and not even care. Or you can go in sport mode and pull the paddles yourself to get a kick in the pants. The turbo I6 with the DCT would feel even faster than it is. And if you tune the car you'll have a rocket. You could get the MT as well. I just think it's cool that you could get the DCT from the M3 in the 335is whereas the E90 335i didn't come with it as an option. But if you prefer 4 doors then definitely get an E90 335i, in that case I'd go with the 6MT, sport package or M-Sport line if you find one.

Option 3: Forget costs and be a hero - get an E9X M3. Prices are great. You can get one for the price of a moderately optioned F30 328i. Sure it will use a ton of gas and sure it will be more expensive to maintain. But you'll never regret it. Every time you start the car in the morning the engine burble will make you a happy person. And you'll want to keep the car forever.

Option 4: Be safe and lease a new or 1 year old F30 328i. This is the "safe" option but I've never been one for playing it safe. Anytime I did I regretted my decision later and wasted money because I sold the car to get something more exciting.

The Millennial Falcon > Manuél Ferrari 11/21/2013 at 12:25

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Option 4, then 1, then potentially 3 if I have a financial deathwish. The lease rates/end of lease purchase options on the F30 328i are pretty enticing.

jonfr > The Millennial Falcon 11/21/2013 at 14:12

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I've got an '09 328i sport pack w/ 6speed. Coming from a 300hp '00 Mustang GT track car. Here are my thoughts:

1) Don't bother with a 1-series. There's no advantage to it. It looks cheap.

2) Power: The 328i doesn't have immediate OOOMPH of the 4.6 v8, nor does the 335i. The 335i is so polished that you go faster, but it doesn't have the feeling of faster. You're just going numerically high, which is BAD for a street car. Do the Pepsi challenge yourself. The twin turbos cost about $8k more when I was looking.

3) None of these cars have a LSD, which is a big deal. Kiss your hoon dreams good buy.

4) The x28i models have lifter issues, which fall under warranty.

5) Directness: BMW rides the fine line between steering feel and feeling every groove in the road. If you want more feeling, you can mount the M control cars at $400 per end.

6) F30 vs E92: Drive both. Keep in mind that all lease or off-lease cars, which are the BULK of production are Auto, AWD, non-sport, grey or black cars. Not really enthusiast cars. You can't lease an F30 with the options you'll want for the deal lease rate.

Other thoughts: If you're going to mess with the suspension, buy a non-sport car. Otherwise buy a sport suspension car. Get a folding seat.

Manuél Ferrari > The Millennial Falcon 11/21/2013 at 16:26

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You are way more fiscally responsible than I :)

On option 1 - what I like about this is that the car has already depreciated. Even with a good lease rate you're still paying for the high deprecation rates that cars experience in the first few years. With option 1 somebody else took that hit and you get to enjoy the lower annual depreciation rates.

The Millennial Falcon > Manuél Ferrari 11/21/2013 at 16:38

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True. What it comes down to for me is cost to maintain. I know I shouldn't be looking at german makes if I want a low ownership cost, and I know it won't be as low as a camry or something similar. Simultaneously, long-term money wins out for me instead of absolute driving purity. (plus a true "driver's car" in the field of heavy luxury sedans isn't exactly possible, but that's another discussion) The E90's are known for having things break, and it's never the cheap stuff. The long term tests have looked favorably upon the f30, and for that i'm interested.

Manuél Ferrari > The Millennial Falcon 11/21/2013 at 17:03

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Where did you read that the E90s are known for having things break? That may have been true for the early 335i models. But the later cars were supposed to be a lot better. Especially the N/A 328i. A post-refresh (2009 and on) 328i should be pretty bulletproof, especially if you get the MT so there is no AT to fail. The E90 AT isn't known to fail like some years of the E46 AT, but still safer to get the MT is long term costs are important to you as all ATs can fail at some point whereas all you need for the MT is an occasional clutch replacement.

Even if the long term tests for the F30 have come out well I still think it's too soon to know for sure. I would trust a late model E90 328i over any F30. I know BMW has been doing mass market turbo charged engines for a while now so they should have them down, but there is still more to go wrong with a turbo charged car. The MPG savings with the 2.0L turbo are minimal if you like to accurate fast since getting into the boost hurts mileage.

IMO a late model E90 328i that was maintained properly can be nearly as reliable as a Camry. It has a N/A engine that isn't high strung, just like the Camry. And like the Camry there are TON of them out there so there is a lot of good information on the BMW forums. If you do have an issue you can easily find advice on diagnosing it before you take it to a mechanic or take the car apart yourself. So you can find the cheapest possible solution.

I really think the late model E90 328i cars will end up being one of the better used car purchases in modern times. BMW had a lot of reliability issues in the early 2000s that they worked out by the late 2000s. I've had my E90 M3 for a year and haven't had a single thing go wrong with it. I found my ex-gf (well kinda dating again dunno what's going exactly) the 2009 E90 328i that she drives daily 2 years ago. She hasn't had a single problem either. It's got the sport package, iDrive, and the AT. I have driven that car a lot and I've test driven the F30 328i. I honestly like the E90 better. The N/A 6 trumps the 2.0L turbo 4 when it comes to smoothness and sound. The gas milage is actually pretty good on the E90 328i, even with the AT. The steering feel is worlds better than the electric power steering in the F30. The F30 has the nicer interior, but I dunno if that is enough to pay more for it.

The tough thing about the F30 is that it's hard to get a really nice one for a good price. If I was getting an F30 I would think the M-Sport line would be crucial. The base car is just too soft for me. It feels like they made the base care more like a Lexus and force you to pay for the M-Sport to get an actual sports sedan. And the front end of the base car is kind of funny looking to me. But I think it looks sharp if you get a black one with the M-Sport package. But then you're spending more too...

Good luck with whatever you decide. Either way you should be happy. I think you'll be pretty safe overall whether you go F30 328i or post-refresh E90 328i. Both are good 4 door cars that you can keep for a long time. They're fun and flexible and the longer you keep the car the more affordable it is. While some bimmers have had issues the good model years have been pretty bulletproof and you can drive them for much longer than an economy car without getting bored of it.

Manuél Ferrari > Manuél Ferrari 11/21/2013 at 17:10

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Oh one thing I forgot to mention that's a plus for the E90. I also own a Porsche 997.2 C2. The E9X 3 series is the only affordable sports sedan I've driven that was built between 2005-2011 that reminds me of the Porsche. The hydraulic power steering is great because it's not over boosted. And the dimensions of the car and handling with the sport package make it feel a lot sportier than other sport sedans. The F30 lost some of that "tightness" and feels more like a sedan than a sports car to me. But then again if you prefer comfort over sport then the F30 might be the better option. The longer wheelbase make it more comfortable over bumps. The E90 is plenty comfortable to me because anything is more comfortable over bumps than a 997 without adjustable dampers (which my base car doesn't have).

Manuél Ferrari > The Millennial Falcon 11/21/2013 at 18:45

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Sorry for commenting again, just figured I'd share all my thoughts as I've spent countless hours analyzing 3 Series related information, test driving them, etc etc.

Wanted to give you more info about the ex/current-ish gf's car price and options so you can see how much it depreciated. It was purchased in early 2012 right around the same time the F30 came out. It was a 2009 CPO car with 30,000 miles and was purchased for about $25K. The options were: sport package (better suspension, seats and steering wheel), leather, iDrive with the wide screen nav and bluetooth for phone and streaming music, AT, parking sensors, cold weather package incl heated seats, xenons, sunroof, and probably one or two other things I'm forgetting. You've looked at the prices for cars like this more recently than I have so you would know what it's worth now. If I had to guess it's probably still worth about $20K? Which would be about $5000 of depreciation over a roughly 21 month period, or $238 a month. You can compare that to the lease rates for a new car and how much you'll have to pay to buy it out when the lease is up (if you decide to do so).

In general used bimmers seem to be a huge bargain. New cars are expensive, especially if you want anymore more than a stripper. Since the 3 series is such a popular car there is a glut of lease returns and the dealerships don't want them sitting on the lots for too long. When you go CPO you get the warranty extended. And you can buy extended maintenance to keep getting free maintenance after 50,000 miles.

Leasing is great if it's for business as you can write off the entire cost of the lease as an expense. And it's great to date the car before marrying it. But it is expensive because even if the monthly payment is affordable you're left with paying cash to buy it out at the end of the lease or you have to take out a loan to make monthly payments. You can buy a 3 year old car and have a monthly payment that's similar to the lease payment, except you own it free and clear after 3, 4 or 5 years.

Just food for thought... I had previously leased 2 brand new cars in a row (both business write offs). I didn't keep either and after that I stopped getting brand new cars. The Porsche was a year old when I leased it so I got a killer deal. The E90 M3 was about a year and a half old when I financed it so I got it for less than a decked out F30 335i. I bought my E46 M3 cash this past year. That was the best purchase because it hasn't really depreciated at all. Which is good because I bought a new house and need to sell it now. Let me know if you have any interest ;)